“Talking about money is…” blank. What comes to mind? Is it the word “taboo?” As in, inappropriate, awkward, risky.
But what might be possible if talking about money, at every level, was normalized? And what if — more than normalized — the act was empowering to all involved?
These are some of the questions my colleague Jasmine Rashid found herself asking while researching for her book, The Financial Activist Playbook (Berrett-Koehler Publishers, September 10, 2024). As we covered in our previous conversation in this series for Forbes, Jasmine has spent the last few years understanding the domain of “financial activism:” namely, eight strategies for how everyday people build economic power and help shift the flow of money and power, in line with movements for a more just economy. In this conversation, we’ll go deeper into what Jasmine uplifts as the first strategy of all financial activism — actually talking about money.
Our relationship with money is deeply intertwined with our overall well-being. It has material effects on our lives, of course, but it also has psychological effects. So in this conversation, we’ll also discuss money trauma: a phenomenon familiar to few, but that affects the majority of us. I wanted to learn from Jasmine what might be possible when we start acknowledging and contextualizing our experiences with money and finance, out loud.
MORGAN SIMON [MS]: Conventional thinking goes that we live in a culture in which talking about money and personal finance makes people squeamish. First, how true is that assumption? And what’s behind the silence phenomenon?
JASMINE RASHID [JR]: The latest research by Empower estimates that at least 60% of Americans today avoid talking about money. Hard stop.
That means that the majority of people aren’t discussing with anyone — not even those closest to them — any financial challenges they may be navigating. Just as importantly, it also means that people don’t talk about their financial wins, their financial learnings, their financial history, or their financial goals with others… you get the picture.
And it’s not only personal finance. Many people don’t feel interested, equipped, or ready to talk about financial systems and how they impact our lives collectively, even though most everyone interacts with or is impacted by financial systems on a literal daily basis.
There’s a myriad of factors propping up this norm. One of my favorite explainers comes from an article aptly titled “If we live in a capitalist world, why is it taboo to talk about money?”):
“The ‘money taboo’ is not a single taboo, but rather an amalgamation of several smaller taboos tied to gender and socioeconomic class.”
For example, think about the longstanding cultural assumption that men should be the “breadwinners” of households. Or that talking about one’s wealth in mixed-class settings is bound to bring up power dynamics and offend someone. Or that you have to be really good at math in order to talk about anything related to finance.
There’s a lot at play, and it’s absolutely nuanced. But the end result is often the same: the conversation about money at every level remains relegated to the land of taboo, left to be picked up only by those who identify as “financial experts.” And to say that the professional financial services industry doesn’t represent the demographics of our society at large would be an understatement. The vast majority of financial professionals are white men over 40, who the BBC reports are a staggering 30 times more likely to succeed in financial services than working-class ethnic minority women.
Fortunately, we’re starting to see some shifts in the money conversation. The majority of Gen-Z, for example, say they are an open book when it comes to talking about their finances. I think in order for that trend to stick in a meaningful way, we need to foster a culture that’s not only more financially “literate,” but more trauma-informed and transparent.
MS: At large, talking about money at any level indeed remains challenging. There are even more layers to it, as your book explores. What exactly do you mean by “trauma-informed” in the context of finance?
JR: Financial trauma is a massive force in our society that’s often invisibilized because it compounds two historically “taboo” topics, money and mental health. But just like most of us interact with a financial system every day, most of us experience some form of trauma under capitalism.
Let’s start with the term trauma. There’s something of a cultural misconception that trauma is when something bad happens to a person. But as Dr. Gabor Mate breaks down in his book, The Myth of Normal, trauma is actually about what happens inside of that person — on an emotional and physical level — as a result of the something(s) bad happening to them.
So applied to the financial context: having or not having a certain amount of money, in and of itself, isn’t traumatic. As I learned from money trauma and healing expert Chantel Chapman, financial trauma is the result of negative events and patterns, specifically related to money, that emotionally wound us. That wounding can then shape our behaviors, worldviews, sense of self, reactions, relationships with others, and so on, often in ways we don’t notice.
Lastly, financial trauma responses look different for everyone. It may show up as anxiety about real or perceived scarcity, avoidance of financial matters, impulsive spending, excessive frugality, feelings of shame or guilt about money, or a not-so-fun combination of behaviors. All of these behaviors (fueled by a nervous system trying its very best to protect us) are rational responses to traumatic events.
MS: What are some examples of negative financial events and patterns that may lead to financial trauma?
There of course isn’t a finite list of bad things that can be connected to money (just as, I’d argue, there’s an endless list of good things one could associate with money.)
Financially traumatizing events for people can include childhood poverty or financial insecurity, struggling with debt or bankruptcy, being controlled or manipulated with the use of money, having your sense of “worth” in the world tied to money, and so on. None of us are truly immune to traumatizing financial events.
You can quickly see how these negative events are happening at scale and shaping our economy: ballooning student and medical debt, systemic racial and gender barriers to accessing wealth, food and housing insecurity, and more. And all of this is rooted in a collective history chock-full of financially traumatizing projects — the buying and selling of human beings, the violent dispossession of Indigenous land, the burning of natural resources — in the name of profit.
Said differently: our financial culture, the one in which most of us don’t talk about money, wasn’t designed to benefit the well-being of everyday people.
Now, for the good news (because we deserve some good news). When we’re able to better understand and talk about our money trauma, individually and collectively, we’ve taken a critical first step to changing course and reclaiming agency. That’s why I think of “talking about money” as the very first strategy in the toolkit of financial activism.
I want to be clear — even if we all magically begin talking about money tomorrow, it wouldn’t stop financial trauma. But it would lessen the probability of lasting negative impacts, champion transparency, and empower more people to leverage finance as a tool for activism and self-actualization. Win, win, win.
MS: Addressing trauma, especially systemic, intergenerational trauma, is no small task. How can people begin recognizing and healing financial trauma? And more specifically for those connected to the world of finance and investing, what might be possible if people begin talking about money with a compassionate, trauma-informed approach?
I can’t overstate how much of my work — both as a financial professional and as a human being on her own financial healing journey — has been deepened by the Trauma of Money (ToM) community. ToM (founded by Chantel Chapman, who I mentioned earlier), is an online learning program that “explores frameworks for healing collective and individual traumas to create financial safety and well-being.” Essentially, the methodology empowers people to decrease shame and increase discernment around money decisions, so that they can reclaim financial agency and empower others to do the same.
The ToM model brings together people from all walks of life, from psychotherapists to financial advisors. In addition to learning about money trauma, ToM participants are introduced to tools to help tend to and regulate the nervous system, like somatic practices. Sound far removed from the world of money? Think about how much easier financial literacy education is to absorb when your brain is not in “fight or flight” (or freeze or fawn) mode.
In addition to the ToM community, creators like Berna Anat, Tiffany “The Budgetnista” Aliche, Ellyce Fulmore, and so many more have dedicated their careers to demystifying money for those most economically marginalized. And organizations like Narratives Unbound offer “accessible trauma-informed financial coaching for those who care about local communities and want to develop the know-how to build a solid financial future for yourselves, your families, and your communities.” There’s truly a growing wealth of resources out there, and I’m grateful for each of them.
Now: for my hope. If more people begin talking about money with a compassionate, trauma-informed approach, the world of finance and investing could become more inclusive, equitable, and supportive. Financial institutions might develop more empathetic and personalized services, addressing clients’ unique needs and histories. Overall, this approach could promote healthier financial behaviors, enhance economic stability, and empower a broader range of people to participate confidently in shaping our financial systems.
[MS] Thank you, Jasmine. What’s one thing people can do right now, to transform talking about money from taboo to empowering?
[JR]: Be curious about money stories: starting with your own.
Money stories encompass our personal histories, narratives, and patterns around money, which shape our attitudes, behaviors, and decisions. By understanding these stories, we can identify patterns that may be holding us back, such as fear, guilt, or shame around money.
For anyone who’s reading this, I want to acknowledge that money stories can be hard. They can bring up a lot, and serve as portals for healing. So it’s important we tend to ourselves with grace, the same way we would hold someone we love’s story with compassion. In The Financial Activist Playbook, I offer compassionate, exploratory prompts to begin putting the puzzle pieces together: from one’s ancestral money story, to their growing up money story, to their current money story, and even the future money story they’re hoping to build.
Money stories aren’t written in stone. They don’t define us. But they inform us. And by more openly sharing our money stories and deeply listening to others, we open possibilities for supporting one another’s financial well-being, reducing the stigma and isolation that often accompany financial struggles, and building collective power.
The transformative power of storytelling can’t be underestimated.
DISCLOSURES: Jasmine Rashid is the Director of Impact at Candide Group. Post author Morgan Simon has no financial interest in Rashid’s book.
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